Could be wrong but looks like open season on Christians and Kurds. How the various Muslim groups will likely interact remains a mystery to me, though not for lack of trying.
Nah we’ve seen this movie before. Power vacuums over there never end better than they were before regardless how evil the first “leaders” were. Forgive me if i don’t cheer terrorists being in control of a country w fighter jets and 23m people.
At some point all of the post colonial Arab regimes are going to fall. No one will ask you to cheer , but it’s better to have a better relationship with the people of these countries. It is not a movie to be watched again this is called history you don’t watch it you understand it.
Obviously “I’ve seen this movie before” was a figure of speech. Im more familiar than 99% of americans with the dynamics of the region. I spent many years deploying over and over again to Iraq and Afghanistan fighting these radical islamists. Despite their leaderships claims to have moderated the last thing they want is a “relationship” with the west. These people being in charge is Syria is literally worst case scenario for the 2.5 million Kurds that live there and the 300k Syrian Christians might as well start packing bc the people in charge now believe it’s their holy duty to kill them all bc of their perverted interpretation of the Quran. But hey, the tv told y’all that Assad was the devil and they’re just ethnic and religious minorities so what the hell right? 🤷
And just bc you think it’s inevitable that they all fail doesn’t mean we have to “be happy” about radical islamists being in charge of them. If stability and peace is your objective you should feel anything but happy about these lunatics having MiGs, Mils and gazelles attack helicopters. Maybe educate yourself further about what these people inherited and what their ideology is before celebrating.
In the 70’s I met a lot of anti Shah Iranians in Eugene Oregon. They taught me a CB lot. They staged a mock trial of the Shah and the Savak. I have a friend now who is Iranian. She is/was pro Shah. I don’t know what to say.
Before we became a socially structured regime known as the PRC, China was also facing the problem of civil war versus defending our border from invaders. The patriots in the KMT and CPC chose to put their political differences aside and fight the Japanese first. On the other hand, opportunistic people like Wang Jingwei and Last Emperor Pu Yi chose to work with the invaders. I don’t know the full history of Syria, but the way I see it these rebels are just like Wang Jingwei. This piece of work moved into the presidential suites and took over the capital as a proxy after the bloody Nanking massacre. Invaders and proxies aren’t going to give you civil liberties beyond superficial ones like yelling in the streets. Name one incidence where such events turned out better for the people? I’m not narrow-minded, just judging from our own bloody history of revolutions and wars. Do you have to walk this path yourselves before realizing that economic prosperity isn’t the result of civil liberties, but the foundation? Sovereignty and securing your borders should come first.
Really enjoyed your reply. I read at some point Mao's "On Contradiction" which is just a brilliant piece on strategic and tactical short and long term maneuvering, and it informed actually my Base vs Establishment orientation greatly.
I would agree the islamist, fundamentalist, pro saudi, CIA funded .. etc, tendencies in the Syrian rebels are great. and it is concerning. Yet I think we should allow the Syrian people to go through their own historical process, and every political player is at the same time a historical player meaning they get affected by history. I sense a very essentialist rhetoric emerging among the Anti War activist regarding the Syrian rebels (to justify their sadness regarding Assad collapse) I don't share this essentialist view: no one completely know how these rebels will behave, how the syrian civil society will affect them, how the global situation will change them etc. And now without one of the major sources of inhuman insane violence is gone (Assad) I have some hope the situation in Syria will improve. Of course Israel will not allow syria to be independent and strong easily, same thing can be said about saudi, turkey etc. But history teach us this basic lesson (especially chinese history): the main historical and strategic force in each situation is the local population itself. I have some hope.
War in itself is inhumane and insane violence. Jiang Kai-Shek was no better in his anti-communist crackdowns pre-WW2. But we still needed him and his army in the fight against Japan.
On a side note, you must also see that even with victory against Japan, there are regions in Asia that remain occupied. The kingdom of Ryukyu is dead and will probably only be known as Okinawa prefecture. Those old Korean guerrilla fighters who had been fighting tooth and nail since its annexation in 1910 never got to see their homeland’s full return.
Although you don’t know how the rebels will behave, you can already see Israel moving into the border regions to take their pound of flesh. You also know that the US wants the oil. The two foreign actors are pretty transparent in what they want. I just don’t see how you can push the superpower out without a standing army of your own.
But ultimately, you’re right. Nobody can make these decisions for the Syrian people. We are just spectators sitting on the sidelines. If you’re hopeful, fine then, I respect that position. But knowing the records of US and Israel, I just can’t be happy and celebratory.
Could be wrong but looks like open season on Christians and Kurds. How the various Muslim groups will likely interact remains a mystery to me, though not for lack of trying.
Nah we’ve seen this movie before. Power vacuums over there never end better than they were before regardless how evil the first “leaders” were. Forgive me if i don’t cheer terrorists being in control of a country w fighter jets and 23m people.
At some point all of the post colonial Arab regimes are going to fall. No one will ask you to cheer , but it’s better to have a better relationship with the people of these countries. It is not a movie to be watched again this is called history you don’t watch it you understand it.
Obviously “I’ve seen this movie before” was a figure of speech. Im more familiar than 99% of americans with the dynamics of the region. I spent many years deploying over and over again to Iraq and Afghanistan fighting these radical islamists. Despite their leaderships claims to have moderated the last thing they want is a “relationship” with the west. These people being in charge is Syria is literally worst case scenario for the 2.5 million Kurds that live there and the 300k Syrian Christians might as well start packing bc the people in charge now believe it’s their holy duty to kill them all bc of their perverted interpretation of the Quran. But hey, the tv told y’all that Assad was the devil and they’re just ethnic and religious minorities so what the hell right? 🤷
And just bc you think it’s inevitable that they all fail doesn’t mean we have to “be happy” about radical islamists being in charge of them. If stability and peace is your objective you should feel anything but happy about these lunatics having MiGs, Mils and gazelles attack helicopters. Maybe educate yourself further about what these people inherited and what their ideology is before celebrating.
I’m reminded of Libya.
In the 70’s I met a lot of anti Shah Iranians in Eugene Oregon. They taught me a CB lot. They staged a mock trial of the Shah and the Savak. I have a friend now who is Iranian. She is/was pro Shah. I don’t know what to say.
Before we became a socially structured regime known as the PRC, China was also facing the problem of civil war versus defending our border from invaders. The patriots in the KMT and CPC chose to put their political differences aside and fight the Japanese first. On the other hand, opportunistic people like Wang Jingwei and Last Emperor Pu Yi chose to work with the invaders. I don’t know the full history of Syria, but the way I see it these rebels are just like Wang Jingwei. This piece of work moved into the presidential suites and took over the capital as a proxy after the bloody Nanking massacre. Invaders and proxies aren’t going to give you civil liberties beyond superficial ones like yelling in the streets. Name one incidence where such events turned out better for the people? I’m not narrow-minded, just judging from our own bloody history of revolutions and wars. Do you have to walk this path yourselves before realizing that economic prosperity isn’t the result of civil liberties, but the foundation? Sovereignty and securing your borders should come first.
Really enjoyed your reply. I read at some point Mao's "On Contradiction" which is just a brilliant piece on strategic and tactical short and long term maneuvering, and it informed actually my Base vs Establishment orientation greatly.
I would agree the islamist, fundamentalist, pro saudi, CIA funded .. etc, tendencies in the Syrian rebels are great. and it is concerning. Yet I think we should allow the Syrian people to go through their own historical process, and every political player is at the same time a historical player meaning they get affected by history. I sense a very essentialist rhetoric emerging among the Anti War activist regarding the Syrian rebels (to justify their sadness regarding Assad collapse) I don't share this essentialist view: no one completely know how these rebels will behave, how the syrian civil society will affect them, how the global situation will change them etc. And now without one of the major sources of inhuman insane violence is gone (Assad) I have some hope the situation in Syria will improve. Of course Israel will not allow syria to be independent and strong easily, same thing can be said about saudi, turkey etc. But history teach us this basic lesson (especially chinese history): the main historical and strategic force in each situation is the local population itself. I have some hope.
War in itself is inhumane and insane violence. Jiang Kai-Shek was no better in his anti-communist crackdowns pre-WW2. But we still needed him and his army in the fight against Japan.
On a side note, you must also see that even with victory against Japan, there are regions in Asia that remain occupied. The kingdom of Ryukyu is dead and will probably only be known as Okinawa prefecture. Those old Korean guerrilla fighters who had been fighting tooth and nail since its annexation in 1910 never got to see their homeland’s full return.
Although you don’t know how the rebels will behave, you can already see Israel moving into the border regions to take their pound of flesh. You also know that the US wants the oil. The two foreign actors are pretty transparent in what they want. I just don’t see how you can push the superpower out without a standing army of your own.
But ultimately, you’re right. Nobody can make these decisions for the Syrian people. We are just spectators sitting on the sidelines. If you’re hopeful, fine then, I respect that position. But knowing the records of US and Israel, I just can’t be happy and celebratory.